Written and directed by Umesh Bist, Pagglait (Crazier) is an Indian film that explores the complexities of a family’s prayer and mourning rituals. When a young man named Astik passes away, relatives stream into his home for a funeral. However, the man’s widow, Sandhya (Sanya Malhotra), seems emotionally detached throughout the 13-day grieving process.

The Hindi-language story is emotional and funny at times, yet there’s a neutral tone to all the events, as Bist decodes cultural dynamics within a middle-class family. I recently spoke with the writer-director about his 2021 Netflix film.

Dipankar Sarkar: How did the genesis of the film happen?

Umesh Bist: After writing the story, wherever I narrated the story, the person hearing the story narrated a similar incident in their lives. That is when I realized that the subject and the story are very relatable to the listeners. And then I became conscious that the story is coming from some of my deep experiences when I had to participate in this kind of ritual. It was an experience that was completely caged in my mind. At times, I used to find it bizarre — at times, very supporting, and at times, bordering on comical. Unfortunately, death is something that every household has to go through, but no one likes to talk about it. And that was the time I was observing the things that were happening around me and realized that any emotionally intense grief cannot [be kept] for long. But, after some time, everything would become normal and life would continue. So, the ritual associated with the death became a backdrop of a family reunion that was happening with these entire colorful events. I met the producer of the film Guneet Monga and was pitching an idea for a different film, and she politely informed me that she has stopped making Hindi films and [was] planning a shift to Los Angeles.

After that, over [a] cup of tea, I told her about the subject of the film that I kept thinking about but never sat down to write. It became so relatable to Guneet that she also told [me] about different kinds of experiences she had. We chatted for an hour or so, and then she told me to write a screenplay about this subject. And I replied that I will try, and while narrating to her the character of the protagonist, Sandhya occurred to my mind. It took me around one month to write the first draft, and then I went to Guneet, who was leaving for L.A., and thought that I had come to say [goodbye]. I told her that I had written the first draft and [asked] if she had the time to listen to it. She was quite surprised because it takes six to nine months to write a screenplay. I was able to write the screenplay quickly because I could visualize the characters and situations, and wrote the draft with honesty and sincerity. Guneet listened and immediately decided to make the film. That is how the journey of the film, from idea to [production], took place.

DS: How would you like to interpret the character of the protagonist Sandhya?

UB: Anyone watching the film will have his or her unique interpretation of Sandhya, as the viewers will realize that she was not at all feeling the loss of her husband, Astik.

That was quite a strange thing to happen, and she was quite surprised. It was not that she was unfamiliar with this emotion of loss but somehow she was not able to feel it. She was honestly portraying what was in her heart and not acting in a way others expected her to. She was very puzzled, and somewhere down the line, she also understood why this was happening to her. And we as viewers would gradually come to know that the sense of loss happens only when you owe, and since there was no relationship between Sandhya and Astik, there was no feeling of loss because there was no feeling of possession. If you see, in a very classic way Sandhya goes through all the classic stages of grief, which starts with denial and finally passes to acceptance. So, the character of Sandhya is very honest, and she understood that there are certain things that she could not even share with his mother. Later, when her friend Nazia asks her why she was behaving in such a strange way, Sandhya narrates the incident regarding the death of her cat and [how] she could not eat for days and was continuously crying. So, she is implying that she has undergone the feeling of loss, but right now she cannot feel the same emotions for her husband. And then when she discovers the photograph of Sandhya in her cupboard, she feels jealous, and again that was also a strange feeling that she has never felt before. She starts feeling cheated instead of feeling that sense of loss. And the moment she meets Aakansha, her entire journey of life starts — and in the process, she discovers herself.

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DS: So, in contrast, how would you like to describe the character of Tayaji, played by one of the finest actors of Indian cinema, Raghuvir Yadav?

UB: Tayaji was a very interesting character, and unlike Sandhya, he is also a victim of societal stereotyping. Within the family members, he is the only one who is aware of the rituals and knows how to do them properly, so he was a bit ritualistic in that manner. Sandhya asking for Pepsi sounds strange. [Similarily], Tayaji drinking alcohol surreptitiously on the rooftop is also strange because of the cliches and stereotypes we have created as a society. But if we go deep and analyze his character, we will find that we try to live the life that society expects us to live. And so there is nothing wrong with Tayyaji having a drink on the roof. It is not written anywhere that a man who reads scriptures can’t have a drink. But it is believed that we should not be doing such kinds of things. And by following them, one falls into one’s trap and becomes a victim of one’s own doing — unlike Sandhya, who had a journey of self-discovery and realises that she was trying to identify herself with someone else, and [that] it is no longer possible for her to do for the rest of her life. But someone like Tayyaji will never have this realization and be the victim of circumstances.

DS: Usha (Sheeba Chaddha) and Shivendra (Ashutosh Rana), Astik’s mother and father, are morally conflicted and trapped souls performing their duties the way society wants them to do. What was their role within the larger scheme of the narrative?

UB: I am quite fascinated by the fact that after watching the film, people are coming up with some lovely interpretations, just like you. So, I am rather enjoying how people are looking at the film and coming up with their takeaway. After the death of their son, Astik, Usha and Shivendra are the ones who are grieving the most, and it is heart-wrenching. Losing one child at whichever age is a loss that God forbids happens to no one. But unfortunately, Usha and Shivendra suffer that loss. And when we are fated with such accidents, we look for support to cope ourselves up with the loss. So, Usha turned her attention towards spirituality. On the other hand, Shivendra thought that it was unfair of God, and if it was their destiny, then destiny should have been challenged. Destiny should not have done it. There is a dialogue in the film where Shivendra says to his old mother that we had a lot of faith in God; I named my son Astik (someone who has faith and believes in God). So, after the loss of his son, metaphorically speaking, the belief in God ends from his life. In most of the scenes, Shivendra is dealing with the logistics, such as the per-day rates of the mattresses, the priests, accounting with the list of items for the rituals, etc. He does all this to divert his attention from the grief, as well as to avoid talking to others. He [doesn’t] even share his grief with his wife. It was a delight to work with veteran actors like Ashutosh Rana and Sheeba Chaddha, and both of them played the characters of grief-stricken parents so convincingly. We had lots of discussions before the shoot, and by the time the camera rolled, they had already internalized the characters.

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DS: Different kinds of relationships are shown within the narrative: Sandhya develops a bitter and sweet relationship with Aakansha (Sayani Gupta), Alok (Chetan Sharma) has a week spot for his sister-in-law, Aditya (Nakul Roshan Sahdev), and agrees to marry Sandhya. Aditi (Ashlesha Thakur) and Achint (Sachin Chaudhary) display fondness towards one another. The film presents us with a different form of relationships.

UB: When you are a part of [a] larger family, you realize that the relationships are formal, and within that formality, there is love, complexity, motives. And these attributes make the nitty-gritty of a relationship beautiful. If Aditya’s motive was to marry Sandhya because he wanted to establish his business with her money, then at the same time Ajay had a pure innocent attraction towards her sister-in-law. Ajay knew that such sort of revelation is not right, and he would have never done that if he were not pushed to the corner by circumstances, because every relationship has boundaries that one can never imagine crossing. So, I tried to navigate through these relationships and [tried] to understand how people are connected, as well as understand the motives which can be financial or emotional. And then I decided that instead of one-dimensional characters, let me explore [the] multi-dimensionality that the actors could explore, and we could go on a journey together.

DS: Could you speak about the scene where Sandhya and Nazia are secretly enjoying golgappas (an Indian Snack) is intercut with the mourning rituals? It speaks a lot about the infringement and customs.

UB: Certain choices that you make during the process of filmmaking become so self-defining once they appear on screen that you do not need to say anything more about them. If you had carefully observed, it is a very complex sequence both narrative and editing-wise. There are lots of things happening within it. The story narrated by the priest is happening in the boat in the middle of the river. Without Sandhya listening to the story, how we can relate it to her? Alok is fearful to go in the middle of the river, but he has no other way out. Sandhya just wants to punish her husband for cheating on her. She took a great risk and went out, and by eating the gollgappas, she does not want to be a widow. According to her, Atik has never been a husband to her, thereby such kind of thoughts were not troubling her. So, on one hand, an important Hindu ritual of dispersing the ashes on the river Ganga was happening, and on the other hand, Sandhaya was defying everything in her state of innocence and helplessness. At the end of the sequence, when she returns home, her friend Nazia asks her to forgive her husband, and Sandhya realizes since her husband had cheated on her, only she can forgive her. For a moment, she gets a sense of empowerment. But as she enters the house, she gets to know that the rituals have been performed, and all the sins of her her husband have been atoned and he has reached heaven. And then again, she feels cheated thinking that when her husband has done something wrong with her, how can someone else forgive him? So, it was a complicated narrative and edit. And since you have asked me the question, I think the scene has touched you, and we have done our job well.

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DS: In my opinion, the scene where Astik’s father is accounting for the bills, and Sandhya comes into the room to help, is the most emotional scene of the film.

UB:  First of all, Shivendra and Sandhya were meeting each other for the first time in the film, on-screen. As viewers, we also imaging that both of them used to sit and without any hesitation speak to one another. When Sandhya so easily tells him “Let me help you,” it reveals that the relationship as a father-in-law and daughter-in-law was not only formal, there was some closeness just like a father and daughter. This aspect within the scene was very important. Secondly, it was only Sandhya who understood that Shivendra was hiding behind the logistics and was not able to share his grief with others like her. And she starts understanding the situation once she forgives her husband, and her gaze shifts and broadens. She starts thinking about the entire family situation and society, and further realizes that lot of money [has been] spent on the rituals while reading out the bills. Most importantly, she understands the unspoken things that are in Shivendra’s mind, which not only Usha but also his brother have not yet understood. Now she wants to correct things for the people she loves, cares [for] and respects. At the same time, Shivendra is touched by the caring attitude of Sandhya, and the next day he was going to the insurance office. So, his mind conflicted. It was a very gentle, refined and nuanced kind of a scene, and we took some time to shoot. And both the actors, Sanya and Ashutosh, very beautifully portrayed the characters.

Dipankar Sarkar is a graduate in film editing from the Film and Television Institute of India and currently based in Mumbai. As a freelancer, he frequently contributes to various Indian publications on cinema-related topics.